A nice cup of rabies

Yeah. Unfortunately, I think I've got a fourth reason to be likely to not win:

I, of course, put the thing up as a GIF, and forgot that the poll creator is based around some freeware toolkit that doesn't understand GIF... so everything has a thumbnail except mine.

Stupid software patents. I should just take the file size doubling and use PNG for everything. But... the image is, like, 12k as a GIF! 12k!

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turbinerocks.livejournal.com

You're currently kicking ass. ^_^

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Attack, my minions!

wait, that would be wrong.

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mutleyjames.livejournal.com

*sigh*
Minions.
Rub my ass for me...

or attack - whichever order came first.

(maybe your being lazy - but it's a magnificent example of what you can do...)

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Mmm, I like that command to my minions a lot better.

Mostly I say I was lazy in it because I didn't challenge myself to try anything new. Unless "Oh, I have two hours until the deadline, can I do it?" counts as a challenge. I didn't come up with any new tricks while doing it, and I always feel a little underachieving when that happens.

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mutleyjames.livejournal.com

Aw, Im sorry - I knew what you meant, I just "commented" in a post-party liquored up haze.

Maybe I should've said "rote"?

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*g* Praise is nice. There's no need to take it back! I'm just extra-humble about this one because I think it needed about thirty minutes more work, but didn't get it.

This is the adult equivalant of "I droo this in maf I hate maf It sucks but I uploaded it nEway". I'm much more articulate in my explanation of how it sucks. *grin*

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<3 Lyosha for delaying her bedtime a few minutes to replace it with a JPG.

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It's actually just under 64k as a GIF file, and none of the GIF-compression-improvement tools were able to get it below 60k.

Resaving it as an 8-bit indexed PNG file it's only... 16k (http://wolfwings.us/Peggy_Fox.png).

So, um... where did you hear/find that PNG files would end up being bigger than GIF files? =O.o= Mind you, saved in all their 24-bit (or even 48-bit) glory I could imagine they would be. But PNG files support 8-bit images with a palette. At least, the standard does. :-)

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Okay, make that 56k... mis-read the screen in my sleep-deprived glory of being an insomniac tonight, the day before my next-to-last driving school class. =-.-=

S'still smaller than the GIF file got, that I was able to find. =^.^=

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I get my numbers from what 'Save For Web' says. It may be that Adobe's PNG code is nasty. Though I might be misremembering the 12k. I can't grab what I'd put up on the Trading Post thread and just do get info in the Finder, because I think it's block-size rounded...

Though I may be misremembering the number. I know that a JPEG I consider acceptable is, as always, tons bigger, because JPG just doesn't work with stuff that's nothing but high-contrast edges like this. I'd swear I saved a 12k file at one point! I might be remembering an earlier version's filesize; this was pretty confusingly fast.

Save For Web in AI 10 gives me the following:

GIF, 256 colors, no dither: 20.98k
PNG, 256 colors, no dither: 25.75k
JPEG, 60% quality: 47.83k

I don't know what precise PNG compression mode of the many available Save For Web uses; it doesn't offer any options. Also, the LPEG compression is chosen empirically - I zoom in a little on an area that contains fine detail (such as the face) and flat areas, and go up and down until I don't see any hideous noise texture mucking up my nice crisp edges... usually I'll just use the 0/10/30/60/80% settings that are named, sometimes if it's a lot bigger than a GIF and I need a JPEG I'll twiddle it up and down more finely.

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Oh, you were working with the larger copy saved to DA, too. The one I put up on Yerf was rendered out at 600px wide. Why? Um, I dunno. It felt like the right number to plug into the 'size' box. And the numbers I quoted were for a 600px wide image as well.

I could probably get PNGs smaller, but it'd be a several-step process. Going to another toolkit is more hassle than it's worth.

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The full PNG spec actually uses ZIP compression internally, so the compression can be scaled up or down in exchange for speed quite handilly. Many PNG compressors (including Adobe, they've been infamous for bad PNG compression from the start) use a high-speed instead of high-compression setting for the ZIP aspect, unfortunately. =-.-=

JPEG is similair, actually. The actual spec doesn't store the 'quality' setting anywhere. In fact, each individual 8x8/16x16 block can have a seperate quality. Which means you could save out the 'edge' areas at 90% quality, while saving the 'large flat' areas of colour at say... 10% quality. Unfortunately, there's no tool like that for MacOS or OS/X or even Linux yet that I know of.

If you have any interest, I could see about working on writing such a tool for you, both for PNG and JPEG files in one tool? And just to cover it, the 12k was the 'no desk, spirit, no earring' GIF you posted to the TP thread first after the sketch. PNG was just under 10k. :-)

Surprised the DA version is so much larger in filesize, considering it's NOT that much larger in overall area that I noticed. The image is only about 1.75x as large in pixels as the TP version, but it's over 3 times larger a file. =O.o= Guess you found a randomly magic resolution for the TP version for small filesize. Go Karma? =^.^=

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Doesn't PNG have, like, ten different compression schemes? I seem to remember looking at the spec, and playing with a plugin for ImageFX on the Amiga, annd just being thoroughly overwhelmed by all the options. A bunch of compression options and a bunch of progressive download methods...

Thanks, but naah. The reason I use Adobe's Save For Web is utter simplicity - I get my image done, get my cropmarks in, then hit one key combo and I can interactively test different compressions side-by-side, and rescale the image as well. It's really slick, and not having to leave Illustrator at all makes me a very happy girl.

A part of me would rather use PNG than GIF, both for political reasons, free-toolkit-interface reasons (DA won't scale thumbnails from GIF images, probably for the exact same reason the TP poll won't), and for real alpha when I need it (the 'geeky' icon used for this post has properly-aliased alpha)... but a larger part of me screams "Ease of use!" and I just keep using Save For Web. Convenience wins out over the Right Thing.

I think the early, purple-dress version might also be a lower color depth than the later versions. I'd have to check by grabbing them and stuffing them into Photobloat.

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kinkyturtle.livejournal.com

Ooo! Speaking of PNG alpha, can I show something off here?

My "Miata with teeth" icon. It's designed to make the car appear as whatever color is behind it on the webpage. I did it by firing up Photoshop and... uh... doing clever things. :}

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Since you ask... I'll explain PNG in a rough overview.

The actual formats PNG supports is quite expansive. Relatively arbitrary bit-depth images, grayscale or colour, with or without alpha, from 1-bit up to 16-bit per channel. It also supports having a palettized image, with the same options for the palette instead of the image itself. So, yes, you can have a palettized image with a 64-bit palette, as I understand the spec. This part is the part that confuses a LOT of people. Pretend it Just Works.

PNG has one 'progressive' mode. The way they explain it in the W3C spec is... obtuse. It just makes seven passes, from a one-eighth image up to a full-size image, doubling the horizontal and vertical resolution alternatively. It's optional, and very safe to ignore as it usually makes the files noticably larger. If making a 'progressive' image, the actual image is broken into 7 seperate sub-images, which are each compressed as seperate blocks.

The next step is an optional filtering, that can be changed on a per-line basis. The filtering is one of five modes, which can be left to auto-detect what works best in most implementations. I don't know if the Adobe implementation even tries filtering, again, as it favors speed over compression size.

Finally, comes the ZIP-format compression over the bytes. Most versions are based on ZLIB, an open-source ZIP compression library, so they offer 10 'settings' for it, as ZLIB offers everything from level-0 compression (NO compression at all) up to level-9 compression (best compression at the cost of CPU and memory usage) internally.

And I could just make a drag-an-image-in-and-drop-it GIF->PNG converter? Wouldn't handle animations, obviously, but would let you eake out several more bytes and use a more open file format for distribution easilly?

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What WW said. At the same colour depth, PNG's compression is infinitely better than GIF's [which is just basic runlength encoding]. Plus, it supports more colours. And GIF's single-colour transparency. And alpha. Mmm. PNG is love. :)

(screened comment)

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*screens off some comments*

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medox.livejournal.com

I love how stark and graphic your composition is... with just the right amount of color to punch it up.

And the hair tendrils, probably my favorite part -- or it could be the venetian blinds lighting in the background. Hard to choose.

Really and truly gorgeous.

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This is really me pulling out the ol' cartoon noir formula!

Diagonal swath of light on a black bg, check.
Figure turning to look off-camera with dramatic expression, check.
Caught in the act, check.
Line blend to simulate Venitian blinds, check.
Off-black, off-white, and one color, check.
No shadow cast on figure, check.

The hair's mostly a bunch of scribbles with the pencil tool and a very ery long triangular art brush. I have this down to reflex nowadays.

Thanks, though!

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Doesn't matter, it still looks great. <3 <3

You and

eselgeist provide for my daily need for Not The Exact Same Way Everyone Else Including Myself Draws. Yum. =^.^=

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Every time I see that icon... I can't stop but hear a toony voice going: "Bite, bite, bite, biteybitegroomnibble..." for some reason along with a strange desire to sit down and try to make a pattern for a plush in that pose, just to see if it's possible. :-)

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*giggle*
Make a couple and stick them up on RabbitValley, I'd buy one. =~.^=

Want me to dig up the full image? Original photo was taken by DBraun/Snowcat/Plonq years ago at a zoo. :)

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And, funds allowing, I may even investigate the idea of a pattern for such a plush more seriously now, since you don't think it's a completely crazy idea.

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Hm. While I try to locate the image itself, here's a snapshot of my ancient desktop which used it as a wallpaper. Luckily the icons [sheesh, nostalgia city...] are arranged around the important parts. :)
http://www.lionking.org/~sichi/stuff/desktopsnowcat800x600.jpg

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Ah, here we go. :)
http://www.mts.net/~plonq/Church/coolpic/coolpic.html

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dv-girl.livejournal.com

Maya. You'll never not feel lost again.

I think that's Alias's unofficial creedo. Good luck with remembering the hotkeys! O_O

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draca-serpens.livejournal.com

You did it again! You put the shadow of the blinds on the wall, but not on the girl! Not that that's bad. It still looks good. But, but...I caught you! Ha!

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Yep! I was thinking as I did it, 'hmmm, I should make this read more as plank-lined walls, it kinda looks like blinds... eh, no time'.

It's a total cheat, but it really works.

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neogeen.livejournal.com

I can't wait to draw for you, casue, I know you'll have a mucho interesting character up for the masses.
*cackles gleefully*

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She's, um, she's just like me, except she dresses a little more daringly, and she's, ummm, a wolf/leopard cross, and, um, she wears a BPRD jacket 'cause she got totally into Hellboy when the movie came out, and she listens to Korn and the Cure and NIN and and and, ummm...

...fuck , hell yeah it'll be interesting!

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Speaking of which, I have to take Splash's advice and commission you to draw me.

By the way, did you see the finished version of my new pic (http://www.hauntedcaverns.com/images/art/starlight1.jpg)?

It's really good, but it isn't the way that form is supposed to look EXACTLY. It's supposed to be herm, yet look totally female. Muzzle is too big. Wings are backwards and maybe a bit too transparent.. But other than it, it's about right.

Splash thinks you could do it perfectly. ^^

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Just because it would be interesting to compare/contrast Peggy doing something against Kaijima doing something against

eselgeist doing the same thing, if I could have my pick of any artists to have attempt the same topic and expect the results to all be noticable different from the normal AND from each other, but all be good. :-)

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I was actually talking to Neogeen, but I wouldn't mind having a pic done by Peggy, too. ^^

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Wow.. This looks like something from a comic book. Or it SHOULD be in a comic book.

Hmm..

You need to make a comic book. ^^

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I've got at least one idea for a comic hanging in the back of my head...

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kensan-oni.livejournal.com

Define new tool?

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Probably Maya. See the entry previous to this one.

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kensan-oni.livejournal.com

Maya's cool. Much easier to use then Cinema 4D I hear.

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"I am not a cute twelve-year-old girl who religiously participates in the TP and hasn't won yet."
"Looks like I'm winning, right now it's twice the votes of the second one. Huh, looks like my guesses about the Yerf Group Mind's tastes were wrong."

You only change your opinion when it suits you...? I'd call that sour grapes. Whether yours is the majority favorite does not make it the best, since art always has been and always will be a matter of perception. Everyone puts forth an effort, and such blatent general assumptions needen't be made about the voters or the other artists. Show a little grace.

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