Also there would have been something about my disinterest for sports/simulation games coming from the fact that they model activities well within the reach of anyone, as opposed to activities firmly in the realm of imagination.
Well, sure, but the scope is different, and that makes all the difference. I can go outside and shoot baskets, but I'm not a coach in the NBA, and I don't have access to a race track or a McLaren F1. And for people who are invested in sports, that's something fantastical that they can relate to, whereas they wouldn't necessarily relate to a game like Okami or Katamari.
go grab that install you have lying around of Virtual Villagers, for instance: what does that game tell you is Good for the Tribe by dint of success/failure conditions?
Making more tribe members, mostly! And making sure you have sustainable food sources. Cooperation. It's a non-violent game, that's its intent. It's an extension of the "virtual pet". And it's aimed at people who don't sit down and play the game for an hour, because you can't accomplish anything without waiting 8 hours. But trust me, my employer loves his hard-core FPSes as well.
I don't think that a game whose mechanic is violence is a bad thing: people like pretend violence, they've always been attracted to it, I think it's healthy. Our classics are filled with violence. Great art is often violent. The real thing isn't healthy, but there would be a great gulf in my life if I were told that I could no longer play a game with violence or war as its central theme. Because that's 95% of what I play, and I play more games than I watch television or movies.
Also there might've been something about the values communicated underneath a game's narratives in the conditions for success
Right, but I don't think we're meant to take the core values of a lot of darker games THAT seriously. I think the designers of Thief would rather we treat the game as a great story and a fun mechanic that inspires tension in a way most games don't (Thief makes waiting an art form, as you hear footsteps and agonize over the right moment to make a break for it), rather than taking the notion of stealing everything, having no loyalties, and trusting nobody to heart.
Bioshock's meat is of course about killing, it's a horror game about a destroyed utopia, but it's a horror game that knows that you need some contrast to the horror (saving little girls, beautiful art deco interiors, optimistic utopian ideals) to bring the horror home. That amidst all the mayhem and bloodshed, you can elect to rescue this person. Maybe too much has been made of that choice, either because it was sold as something bigger than it was in previews, or whatever, but I think it's there because it's effective storytelling. It's not Bertold Brecht: the game, it's just a shooter with a higher level of art than most. Ken Levine used to be a screenwriter, and it shows in his game plots.
With games played by young people, I think the values of a game's setting and mechanic are significant, since impressionable minds are at play. You don't want your 3rd grader playing GTA. Then we get into games as potential K-6 teaching tools, and I'm out of my depth.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-06 01:02 am (UTC)Well, sure, but the scope is different, and that makes all the difference. I can go outside and shoot baskets, but I'm not a coach in the NBA, and I don't have access to a race track or a McLaren F1. And for people who are invested in sports, that's something fantastical that they can relate to, whereas they wouldn't necessarily relate to a game like Okami or Katamari.
go grab that install you have lying around of Virtual Villagers, for instance: what does that game tell you is Good for the Tribe by dint of success/failure conditions?
Making more tribe members, mostly! And making sure you have sustainable food sources. Cooperation. It's a non-violent game, that's its intent. It's an extension of the "virtual pet". And it's aimed at people who don't sit down and play the game for an hour, because you can't accomplish anything without waiting 8 hours. But trust me, my employer loves his hard-core FPSes as well.
I don't think that a game whose mechanic is violence is a bad thing: people like pretend violence, they've always been attracted to it, I think it's healthy. Our classics are filled with violence. Great art is often violent. The real thing isn't healthy, but there would be a great gulf in my life if I were told that I could no longer play a game with violence or war as its central theme. Because that's 95% of what I play, and I play more games than I watch television or movies.
Also there might've been something about the values communicated underneath a game's narratives in the conditions for success
Right, but I don't think we're meant to take the core values of a lot of darker games THAT seriously. I think the designers of Thief would rather we treat the game as a great story and a fun mechanic that inspires tension in a way most games don't (Thief makes waiting an art form, as you hear footsteps and agonize over the right moment to make a break for it), rather than taking the notion of stealing everything, having no loyalties, and trusting nobody to heart.
Bioshock's meat is of course about killing, it's a horror game about a destroyed utopia, but it's a horror game that knows that you need some contrast to the horror (saving little girls, beautiful art deco interiors, optimistic utopian ideals) to bring the horror home. That amidst all the mayhem and bloodshed, you can elect to rescue this person. Maybe too much has been made of that choice, either because it was sold as something bigger than it was in previews, or whatever, but I think it's there because it's effective storytelling. It's not Bertold Brecht: the game, it's just a shooter with a higher level of art than most. Ken Levine used to be a screenwriter, and it shows in his game plots.
With games played by young people, I think the values of a game's setting and mechanic are significant, since impressionable minds are at play. You don't want your 3rd grader playing GTA. Then we get into games as potential K-6 teaching tools, and I'm out of my depth.