AGGH JESUS GNYAAAH

[egypturnash]

Someone sent me a giant fucking e-mail that collects SIX Christian viral mails in ONE. With a preface containing stuff like 'For most of every one of the 3,471 people I have e-mailed, I do not know you, but Jesus knows each and every one of us.'

Shit. 'To' list a mile long, and I'm just part of the P's, S's, and T's. Lots of @ccccd.edu addresses, too. I guess 'CHRISTIAN <christians@direcway.com>' is down in Georgia somewhere...

I dunno, proselytizing always rubs me the wrong way, especially when it's something this mawkish and sentimental. And the fact that all Christian propaganda, especially e-mail forward stuff, seems to be so mushy and weepy never helps either. Appeals to nothing but emotion always makes me roll my eyes.

So. A decent time to go into a few things about me and my take on faith, I suppose...

I don't believe in any particular god or goddess; I like to call myself a 'polyagnostic' - there are many pantheons I've learned about, and I vaguely doubt all of them. I distrust any religion (or any organization) that seems to be built with a significant viral component to it - your soul is your concern, mine is my own, if you try to sell me your religion I reflexively think 'pyramid scheme'. The religions I do see some value in are mostly ones that don't aggressively push themselves upon others. I respect other people's need for the divine in their life; I don't have that desire as far as I can tell. I don't really feel like pushing your religion on someone is at all seemly; it's like trying to tell everyone that I like to hump plumbing supplies, and you should try it! Now! Really! You'll love it! It'll change your life!. Nobody wants to hear about it unless they're already interested. Lead by example, please, not coercion.

Mostly, I'm pretty materialistic and rationalist. I have no trouble ascribing consciousness to the complex, subtle interactions of a soup of cells. Sometimes I even think of myself as a gnostic who's never had a gnostic experience - if I see a divinity, sure, I'll believe in them, but I'm not going to take it on someone else's word. I want to see with my own senses. I take nothing on faith.

Lately, I've been getting a little more open to the idea of things beneath, above, and around the solid, obvious world, but I'm exploring my own personal spirituality, pulling metaphor from all over, trying to find the good and lose the bad, never taking it literally or too seriously. It's nothing quite coherent yet. Nothing necessarily that warm and comforting, either. And nothing simple and obvious. And I'll only tell you about it if you're curious and open and it's the right moment in a private conversation.

Also, anyone who thinks analogies about 'We are all pumpkins, and God scoops our brains out and carves a smile onto our face' are anything appealing is a fucking creepy brainwashed drone. I work hard to be myself, thank you. That's another element I hate about viral Christianity - the undercurrent of conform, cede your decisions to a Higher Authority, stop thinking for yourself. This is at the heart of what creeps me out about many religions, really. The drone thing.

Also, I think my most recent self-portrait sketch proves that I'm charting my own route to Hell in the eyes of someone like christian@direcway.com. Rowr ♥.

---

Reflexive backlash: Someone needs to write some inspirational stories of how accepting the Goddess into their life has changed them, and spam their address book. Or praising Odin. Or quiet explanations of the ineffable mysteries of existance. Hail Discordia, all hail Eris; the Bob which can be described is not the true Bob. Cute little metaphors about Raven.

Comments

[prickvixen.livejournal.com]

Could you forward that to me? Let me do something with it. Heh heh heh.

[kamenkyote.livejournal.com]

Funny, I got that one today as well, though I didn't open it. Wonder if the addresses have been gathered off LJ somehow.

-T'

[slinky-treecat.livejournal.com]

I think I could be best described as an 'apathist'.. don't know if there is a god/goddess/supreme mojo/whatever or not and I don't care. I'll live my life as I want to and if there is somekind of reward/revenge at the end of it all, so be it. I'm not worried about the afterlife.. I'm going to find out what it's all about someday, if there is anything, so I don't see a reason to fret about it. It's not like I can avoid it and since I've no idea what it might be (if anything) there's nothing I realistically can do to prepare for it. I certainly don't see any reason to buy into someone else's 'organized religion' so that other people can leech off of and control my life for me. That kind of inhibits the old 'self determination' thing doesn't it?

Ah.. sorry... I'm babbling. :)

[slinky-treecat.livejournal.com]

Cute self portrait btw.. butt cleavage is way under-rated. ;) I take it you enjoy hard back scratches?

[shatterstripes.livejournal.com]

Yeah, most vilely viral religions seem to be about 'do what we say for something in the end' instead of 'make things better here and now'.

And, um, yes. I like sensation. *blush*

[dragonscholar.livejournal.com]

Actually that's a good summary - both "viral" and the "later reward." It's sort of pitched like an investment scam, actually.

[shatterstripes.livejournal.com]

Exactly. And it sets off a lot of the same alarms in my head, too.

[dragonscholar.livejournal.com]

It's really very similar. Note the emphasis on predatory evangelism in some cases - it's feels like a kind of pyramid scheme.

It's very, very creepy to realize that there are people out there completely convinced they know how the universe works and they're going to work hard to make sure you think the same way.

[dingybatty.livejournal.com]

Yep, I got the same one today.

[adequatemagic.livejournal.com]

Really, it's all about the bum clevage.

Really.

[shatterstripes.livejournal.com]

I think we may have the seeds of a new religion here.

[hydra-velsen.livejournal.com]

*slips a $20 into the collection garter*

[dragonscholar.livejournal.com]

Bum cleavage *IS* something people can feel honestly religious about - and they never seem to need to preach about it.

[dv-girl.livejournal.com]

I've been getting these stupid things for weeks. Also 'I saw you in church last Sunday' and 'Christian Singles' mailings.

You know. I really SHOULD go out with a christian single... I wonder how much damage I could do to his psyche in a single evening. >:)

[shatterstripes.livejournal.com]

Mostly I just get dick-size and Viagra spam. Ashy gets no small amount of 'Christian Singles' spam.

But this wasn't that, this was oh I will forward this lovely inspirational e-mail taken to another level...

(Also note that I put the source e-mail address in plain text, in case a spambot scrapes my LJ. *grin* Though it sounded like a semi-throwaway one.)

[mister-wolf.livejournal.com]

Also, anyone who thinks analogies about 'We are all pumpkins, and God scoops our brains out and carves a smile onto our face' are anything appealing is a fucking creepy brainwashed drone.

Did they really put that in there?ecause not only is it stupid, it is also... if not heretical, than at least wildly tangental to traditional Christianity. "God has a wonerful plan for your life" is one thing (even though I'm pretty sure he DOESN'T), but that's just obscene. =:/

Speaking as a Christian, Evangelicals have done so much more harm than good. They're just so bloody litteral-minded. =:P

[shatterstripes.livejournal.com]

*nod* I've seen reference to it before, it's one of those little inspirational e-mail forwards that will never die. I'd never gotten it before, though! Along with five other Inspirational Essays.

---

Subject: Are You A Pumpkin?

A woman was asked by a co-worker, "What is it like to be a Christian?" The
co-worker replied, "It is like being a pumpkin. God picks you from the
patch, brings you in, and washes all the dirt off of you. Then he cuts off
the top and scoops out all the yucky stuff. He removes the seeds of doubt,
hate, greed, etc., and then He carves you a new smiling face and puts His
light inside of you to shine for all the world to see."

Please pass this on to another Pumpkin.

---

I know there are sensible, reasonable Christians, who actually respect other people's right to choose their own moral codes and their own ways through life... I know some personally. But yeah, this kind of stuff does more harm than good to their cause; to an outsider, it makes all the variants look stupid. My reflexive stereotype of Christianity in all its flavors and facets is that it's about stupidly taking everything in the Bible as literal truth and conforming. Both of which are absolute polar opposites to my mental reflexes.

(doublepost because I botched the HTML, sorry.)

[mister-wolf.livejournal.com]

...and then the neighborhood children come and smash you and TP God's house.

Really, that's the worst kind of glurge - disturbing and grusome when it means to be cheeful and uplifting. I can't say there isn't an element of painful transformation in Christianity, but that's a really, really bad and innacurate way of putting it. Especially the brain-scooping out imagry, and the creepy smile-carving bit.

"Christians smile all the time! Christians are never sad! Come - Join us. Join usssssss!"

My reflexive stereotype of Christianity in all its flavors and facets is that it's about stupidly taking everything in the Bible as literal truth and conforming. Both of which are absolute polar opposites to my mental reflexes.

Forgiveness and love are what it's supposed to be about. =:P

[dustmeat.livejournal.com]

Yep. I am one of those Christians that is embarassed by other Christians. And the kick of it is? I used to proseletyze! We were told we had to, that we were bad Christians if we did not. It was guilt manipulation, and not accurate Bible teaching.

[ultraken.livejournal.com]

The Church of Christ is really big on proselytization. In fact, they make your salvation contingent upon it. I know because the Boston Church of Christ sprung that one on me after they roped me in. I fled immediately thereafter to a nice laid-back Methodist church. :)

[dv-girl.livejournal.com]

You know... I'd love to point out to the person that wrote this that they're saying God is in favour of abortion. Cut em open, remove the fertilized seed. I bet the writer would have a hemmorage.

[paka.livejournal.com]

Okay, incoherent babbling time;

• I'd love to hear your take on spirituality sometime. As a matter of fact I'd suggest that the more we disagree, the more valuable it would be for me to hear what you think.
  
• It took me years to figure out where I'm at, and even now I'm still questioning my faith nigh-constantly. Coming up with some One Pure Truth can doesn't sound like something one can get by rushing at top speeds to embrace whatever faith. And if our world truly is the work of a loving divinity, then it's something that's been around for billions of millenia; why should S/He find it crucial that you or I need to suddenly start kowtowing right this moment?
  
  I feel that proseletyzing basically amounts to a lack of faith. If God's so all-fired great, then doesn't it stand to reason people will turn religious based on the worth of His or Her creations, rather than thanks to a constant stream of advertisements, threats and mandates?
  
• Whatever one might think about faith, gods and spirits one cannot avoid that opinions of religions are very much based on worshippers. This is why any and all of your opinions are infinitely more valuable to me, than anything these dogmatic would-be-genocidal theocrats might have to say.
  
• We are all pumpkins, and God scoops our brains out and carves a smile onto our face. I won't even start with how creepy this is. This one phrase disturbs me more than anything I ever learned or saw in Parasitology.

[shatterstripes.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure my views on spirituality are really something I can sum up. They're just a vague jumble somewhere in a storage room of my mind; I just don't have the God Gland or whatever it is that makes people need to fill in a part of their life with the divine.

My opinions are mostly, take what you need from every religion, there is something worthwhile in a lot of them. even if it's wrapped in dogma and ritual and hate. Whatever gets you through those long dark self-hating 3AMs is good, whatever helps you get your friends through those is better, whatever doesn't make you go out and force it on others is really good.

Pumpkins: I quoted that one exactly in a response to the comment above this one. It'a not quite as bad as I made it sound, but it's pretty damn nasty.

[doodlesthegreat.livejournal.com]

I'm much like oncewas. I don't really care any more about any gods, goddess or whatnot. I don't have to see invisible boogie men to be impressed. One quick look at the stars on a clear evening does that. The universe is bigger than any religion I've run into, especially the Judeo-Christian ones.

I've a simple credo that I got decades ago: Live your life in a way that you don't have to fuck over other people to survive. All else is extraneous.

[dustmeat.livejournal.com]

Now now, play nice. Judeo-Christian belief is not small in regards to the Universe. God created it, it fits in the palm of His hand, is that what you find offensive? I am not trying to get snippy here, I just wish to clear up some misconceptions about my faith:
The Universe is huge, but God is bigger. If you bring your beliefs down to a human level, sure: the Bible looks wimpy. But if you think of God as the author of all those stars and galaxies, and not in some corny greeting-card way, it presents a bigger picture.

[(Anonymous)]

*wry smile* Yah, I hate those things, too. My brother-a brother I can't stand & try to avoid whenever possible-loves this kind of junk. I am far from an anti-Xtian, though, just anti-stupidity.

I've run into two kinds of Xtians in my life as an artist, working at studios: one type is really, agressively "jesus loves you"-right off the top of my head, I can think of 3 people recently who are in that mode. And guess what? All 3 of them, as far as I can tell, are venal, calculating, selfish, not-nice shits. They talk the talk, but all it seems to be there for is to validate whatever the fuck they decide to do--and it's a very "ME FIRST-and God is behind ME" sort of philosophy". Very Geo. W. Bush, alright.

Then, there's been a couple of instances where that this guy or that girl were practising christians, or catholics(I make that distinction because in my experience born-again christianity is a separate a sect from catholicism as buddhism is)-and it blew me away. Why? Because those persons had zero santimoniousness, because they seemed to have a totally healthy intellect & sexuality, becuase they were cool in every non-hackneyed sense of the word. Worldly, if you know what I mean. And I never heard any reference to religion pass their lips to their coworkers. And I love that kind of discovery about people: I just love it when they are 180 degrees from what you'd think, either at first look, or when you've gotten to know them a bit better. I love when anyone just don't fir that stereotype.

As for anonymous me: I've believed in a god since I can remember, although our family was the most white bread, generic midwestern protestants imaginable. We went to "church" at Xmas & easter, that's it. But being a child of rampant imagination, and loving from tothood the feeling of animation and mystery in the world-the natural world, the kinship of animals, the beauty of music and art and light & things humans create that are better than the sum of their parts--I just never felt otherwise. It definitely translates to "belief"..."faith", the taking of something without proof, has stymied some brilliant minds for thousands of years...but personally I'm positive that science will show or indicate things of another dimension, eventually, to catch up with theories, and that's fairly exciting. I'm one of those two or three people, apparently, who doesn't see why any science "proves" there's no god-the "one or the other" position seems silly to me. But I ramble. Good discussion here!

[dustmeat.livejournal.com]

You may be anonymous but you are pretty cool!

[shatterstripes.livejournal.com]

The people who treat their religion as something personal, something not to be spread about, something not to be thrust on strangers - are the ones who are actually interesting. These are the ones it's actually possible to have a reasoned discussion with, the ones who might even actually have some chance of converting someone like me. Not the ones who loudly proclaim their religion while ignoring the basic ideas behind it, mostly using it as a justification for attacking anyone different.

Also, they're complex and layered. The aggressively religious types often seem to be, well, flat. Dogmatic. Unexamined.

I've never found a reasoning viewpoint to be inherently opposed to faith. Opposed to taking every piece of a myth cycle as literal truth, yes. But being open to the inherent wonder that there is something instead of nothing, that matter can become something so complez and beautiful? There is something amazing and magical and beautiful there. Maybe it's some Divine Force. Maybe it's not. I think it's perfectly possible to be rational and inquisitive and feel there's some design at work in the universe. I don't - not most of the time - but I can certainly see the possibility.

(I also have to wonder if you're one of my co-workers, and if so, which one. *grin*)

Plumbing Supplies

[space-wolf.livejournal.com]

I have lots left over from getting the house repiped a couple of weeks ago.

Re: Plumbing Supplies

[shatterstripes.livejournal.com]

Oohh! People are so loving and helpful! Thanks!

Wilde. You really need to read Wilde on Art and Religion.

[(Anonymous)]

Google on this phrase: "Beautiful, untrue things."


--Young Pad Thai Learner.

[hunterofshadows.livejournal.com]

im sure this post is old now but I had to throw in my 2 cents. Im with all of you in the whole people who think of their religions as a private thing are more interesting. I believe my own thing (which I wont get into here) and can't stand it when people start this whole you cant believe that you must believe this. I used to get mad at my best friend 'cause she'd go (as she was taught) "can't you please jsut accept Jesus as your savior? I don't want you going to Hell." and I jsut sit there. Okay, she doesn't do that anymore, because I had a long talk with her about it.
The pushier someone gets with a religion ( I have had bad experiences with Scientologists, Christians, and Catholics) the more I back away.
People always like to get upset when they ask if I go to church and I say no. They say "oh but why?" and I reply "respectfully, that's not any of your business" they usually get snippy and inform me that I am on the high road to Hell, to which I say, then so be it.

To each his own I say. What makes you happy is what's right for you.